Beth Ross and Total Picture Radio Part 2 (of 4)
Welcome to a special careers transition edition of Total Picture Radio. This is Peter Clayton reporting.
Joining us today in New York is Beth Ross, a certified career and executive coach. Her background includes a distinguished career as an executive search professional maintaining a bicoastal practice and executing select executive searches.
Beth’s coaching practice is global in scope. Her sessions with clients in the greater New York area are in person, while working with individuals in other areas and time zones by telephone. The protocol includes all areas of the job search and career transition process with particular emphasis on interview training.
Be sure to visit Beth’s feature page in the careers transitions channel of Total Picture Radio. That’s TotalPicture.com for resource links and show notes. Beth’s website is BethRoss.com.
Beth, welcome back to Total Picture Radio.
What are some of the strategies you give your clients to help them do that?
Beth: The first thing we really talk about is creating your own entity, your own brand, if you will.
A few years back, one of the big magazines had a big campaign about you incorporated. Hey, that’s a great idea because you’re out there really alone. The day of the corporation’s or a company’s loyalty to the individual has long gone. They can’t promise it because they don’t know what’s going to happen with them. We don’t know what’s going to happen with the economy. So what does a person do to get their career into a manageable process?
Sometimes what you do is to take a job that I refer to as a bridge job, something to tide you over until you get onto the career path you think you want. Right now, the very best thing that you can do is to have multiple … let’s call them multiple profit centers within yourself. You may be on a career path … think of the recent people who have been on the career path in banking; I believe they’re having to think how will these skills and this experience translate into something else? There are endless ways you could go – other kind of careers, other kinds of transitions. I work with a lot of people who are trying to figure out whether they can actually transition into doing their own thing, being a sole proprietor or an entity into and of themselves, and this includes everything from purchasing a franchise if they’re able to. And aaahhh… the franchise people, they’ll really let you do this in a number of ways right now; so don’t think you have to have tons and tons of money to do this, what you have to have is the personality, the management skills, the drive, the energy, the sense of entrepreneurship that is really going to make this fly.
Peter: I really like this idea of bridge job because I think a lot of people hold out and hold out and hold out for that dream job that never really comes along and let’s face it, it’s a lot better to be employed than to be unemployed. At least you’re bringing in a paycheck and while you’re doing that, you can continue to network, you can continue to expand your contacts and try to position yourself for that position that you really want but in the meantime, you’re not so stressed out and financially disabled that you can’t do anything.
Beth: The dream job may or may not actually exist. The dream job is in the eye of the beholder at that moment. It may be just a wonderful, wonderful dream realization to have a paycheck coming in the door. That gives you a whole different perspective about what you’re doing.
You’ve got to remember … I can’t stress enough … becoming multifaceted, even when you’re working on a career path that you think this is it, I’m enjoying it, I’m going to grow it, I see all kinds of things that are going to happen – try to learn something else. Anything that you have as a backup could sort of catapult into what you do for a big period of your life.
Another thing here too – we’re living longer, you’re going to have more than one career in all likelihood.
Peter: I want people to understand who are listening to this interview that you work mainly with senior level people. These are people who are executive level, who are coming to you for advice on how to present themselves in an interview. So this isn’t entry level stuff; this is senior level people who have probably, or maybe, have not had to interview in five years. When they come back into this job market that exists today, which is very different than it was five years ago, or even three years ago, there is a very different interview style that you have to adapt.
Beth: Very, very, very true. They’re scared. I think I told you the story about the executive that I was working with who came to me, he was going to be interviewing within his own organization for a big step forward. These are his peers he was going to be interviewing with. I said “what’s your biggest fear?” He said “That I will open my mouth and nothing will come out.” Now this is a guy who has been interviewing people himself for years and years and years.
And yes, it is very true that I work primarily with executives; but, recently I was called by a mother of a 17 year old who is applying for one of the most prestigious scholarships in this country. Part of the scholarship process, in addition to grades – I mean this 17 year old has already run a business, all kinds of stuff – suddenly, I have in front of me a 17 year old who is after this scholarship and he needs incredible interview skills because the interviewing part will be the final deciding part of it. Everything else is on the table. They know all about this kid; he couldn’t be more brilliant, they just don’t come like this. It was very interesting to work with someone; I would only hope that I could live long enough to see what his career, whatever it’s going to be, is going to be going forward. So every once in awhile, one of these things happens.
I also work a lot with people who are trying to get into very esoteric medical school programs, internships, residencies – you better believe they interview these people up one side and down the other because they want to be sure they can talk, they can articulate who they are and what they’re all about and that they’re not just brilliant, but they have many sides to their personality. So this business of a style… if I can work with someone on an interviewing style for one specific thing, I guarantee they’ll have these interview skills for the rest of their life.
Part of it is just – it’s so simple but so complicated – in talking to someone about it who’s objective. Because again, let’s go back to what an emotionally charged issue this is. You could be sitting in a room with someone and your whole life (or you think at the moment) – your whole life depends on what you do and don’t say.
Peter: That’s really interesting that you’re working at that level. Recently in the Wall Street Journal there was an article that Stanford has now joined Yale, Harvard, and a few other of the top tier schools in offering free education to students whose parents earn less than $100,000 a year, or $80,000 a year, what that is doing is just making it all the more competitive with these colleges that so many young people are trying to get into. So you are absolutely right, I mean, any one of these, no matter how brilliant they are, no matter what their GPA is, they’re going to have to sit down and interview someone.
Beth: They will interview not with just one person, not with just one someone, but many someones, and all of these people have different backgrounds, different experiences, different agendas.
I work with clients a lot… you know, some of us just take the business of evaluating people, we read people well. Someone like myself who has been in search for so many years, gosh, I’ve just interviewed and interviewed people and so I know how to do this. Not everyone does and not everyone who is going to be interviewing you is going to be a super interviewer themselves. And some people you’re going to like and some people you will not like and you have to really make this distinction and know how you work with someone that you suddenly know oh we’re so different, but the sameness that you want to convey is that sameness that’s going to make you a fit in the organization and a fit for the specific position.
Peter: Beth, do you work with your clients from a strategic standpoint of say, alright, here are three companies I would really like to work with, or work for; let’s figure out an plan to get me into these three target organizations that I have identified and done a lot of research with and know that I would be a good fit from a cultural standpoint, from an educational standpoint, from a personality standpoint – I’d really like to get into these organizations because I see them growing. How can you help me crack that and get in the door?
Beth: I wish I had someone intelligent enough to appear in my {laughing} sphere of influences that say this. No, but I say that… I turn around and I say this to them. Look, there are four ways that you get jobs.
You get jobs through ads, you get jobs through recruiters, you get jobs through networking, and you get jobs through direct contact. Now most of the senior level people I’m talking to are not going to be getting through ads – and not just generic recruiters, perhaps executive search, but that’s a whole other thing. Networking – maybe yes, maybe no; we’ve got the social networking and all that stuff going now. But know it’s part of my protocol and my way of working with executive, I have them target 3 to 10 companies they want to work for. They’ll say “but I can’t get in there, I don’t know anybody, I don’t have any names…” – yes, you can.
I show them how to get in front of a decision maker not to ask for a job (never ever, ever, ever) – to ask for advice, especially at the senior level. It’s so hard to say the words ‘I need your help.’ ‘Where do you think I might fit in to this industry?’ And if they say oh my god, you never would, then say ‘where do you think I would fit - period.’
There is a whole strategy that I won’t go into now, but that I really work with people on to get in front of decision makers. Because you’re going to come out of that meeting – and yes, you will get that meeting. I can show you and tell you how. It is hard work, there is no free lunch, you’ve got to work at it and you’ve got to keep meticulous records and so on. But when you leave that meeting, you have a new networking contact. Hey, this is what we’re doing now – networking! That’s how we get all our information, all the sites you might be a part of and so forth. But we’re talking now about a specific job search. You’re talking about someone working with a career coach, like myself.
Now the first obvious advantage of that is that two brains are better than one. The second very obvious advantage is that one of the people, the coach, hopefully is totally objective about this thing and can really create focus and keep the whole process on track.
But yeah, this business of identifying exactly where you want to go, it is possible. I can document this. People can get a job at the company that they want to work for at whatever level because we are, alas, in a downsizing economy but there are still wonderful positions out there.
Peter: For the talented people that actually go after them.
Beth: Yep – that go after them and that can assume the attitude of a consultant.
One of the worst things people do in interviews, it’s all about me, me, me, me, me. No! It needs to be about the company. Find out what their problems are, figure out a whole strategy in your mind of how can help solve these problems and positively impact their bottom line. It’s all about money.
Peter: Beth, I want to return to something we talked about earlier and that is the gatekeeper. So many of the initial interviews today are phone screens that you have to somehow get through, and a lot of those phone screens are even conducted by third party organizations that are doing this on behalf of the company and they’re not even part of the organization, or they may be just a junior level HR person within the company who has a script in front of them and is checking things off as you’re talking.
What are some of the keys people need to think about if they have to go through a telephone screen to get to what’s really their first interview in the organization?
###
Joining us today in New York is Beth Ross, a certified career and executive coach. Her background includes a distinguished career as an executive search professional maintaining a bicoastal practice and executing select executive searches.
Beth’s coaching practice is global in scope. Her sessions with clients in the greater New York area are in person, while working with individuals in other areas and time zones by telephone. The protocol includes all areas of the job search and career transition process with particular emphasis on interview training.
Be sure to visit Beth’s feature page in the careers transitions channel of Total Picture Radio. That’s TotalPicture.com for resource links and show notes. Beth’s website is BethRoss.com.
Beth, welcome back to Total Picture Radio.
What are some of the strategies you give your clients to help them do that?
Beth: The first thing we really talk about is creating your own entity, your own brand, if you will.
A few years back, one of the big magazines had a big campaign about you incorporated. Hey, that’s a great idea because you’re out there really alone. The day of the corporation’s or a company’s loyalty to the individual has long gone. They can’t promise it because they don’t know what’s going to happen with them. We don’t know what’s going to happen with the economy. So what does a person do to get their career into a manageable process?
Sometimes what you do is to take a job that I refer to as a bridge job, something to tide you over until you get onto the career path you think you want. Right now, the very best thing that you can do is to have multiple … let’s call them multiple profit centers within yourself. You may be on a career path … think of the recent people who have been on the career path in banking; I believe they’re having to think how will these skills and this experience translate into something else? There are endless ways you could go – other kind of careers, other kinds of transitions. I work with a lot of people who are trying to figure out whether they can actually transition into doing their own thing, being a sole proprietor or an entity into and of themselves, and this includes everything from purchasing a franchise if they’re able to. And aaahhh… the franchise people, they’ll really let you do this in a number of ways right now; so don’t think you have to have tons and tons of money to do this, what you have to have is the personality, the management skills, the drive, the energy, the sense of entrepreneurship that is really going to make this fly.
Peter: I really like this idea of bridge job because I think a lot of people hold out and hold out and hold out for that dream job that never really comes along and let’s face it, it’s a lot better to be employed than to be unemployed. At least you’re bringing in a paycheck and while you’re doing that, you can continue to network, you can continue to expand your contacts and try to position yourself for that position that you really want but in the meantime, you’re not so stressed out and financially disabled that you can’t do anything.
Beth: The dream job may or may not actually exist. The dream job is in the eye of the beholder at that moment. It may be just a wonderful, wonderful dream realization to have a paycheck coming in the door. That gives you a whole different perspective about what you’re doing.
You’ve got to remember … I can’t stress enough … becoming multifaceted, even when you’re working on a career path that you think this is it, I’m enjoying it, I’m going to grow it, I see all kinds of things that are going to happen – try to learn something else. Anything that you have as a backup could sort of catapult into what you do for a big period of your life.
Another thing here too – we’re living longer, you’re going to have more than one career in all likelihood.
Peter: I want people to understand who are listening to this interview that you work mainly with senior level people. These are people who are executive level, who are coming to you for advice on how to present themselves in an interview. So this isn’t entry level stuff; this is senior level people who have probably, or maybe, have not had to interview in five years. When they come back into this job market that exists today, which is very different than it was five years ago, or even three years ago, there is a very different interview style that you have to adapt.
Beth: Very, very, very true. They’re scared. I think I told you the story about the executive that I was working with who came to me, he was going to be interviewing within his own organization for a big step forward. These are his peers he was going to be interviewing with. I said “what’s your biggest fear?” He said “That I will open my mouth and nothing will come out.” Now this is a guy who has been interviewing people himself for years and years and years.
And yes, it is very true that I work primarily with executives; but, recently I was called by a mother of a 17 year old who is applying for one of the most prestigious scholarships in this country. Part of the scholarship process, in addition to grades – I mean this 17 year old has already run a business, all kinds of stuff – suddenly, I have in front of me a 17 year old who is after this scholarship and he needs incredible interview skills because the interviewing part will be the final deciding part of it. Everything else is on the table. They know all about this kid; he couldn’t be more brilliant, they just don’t come like this. It was very interesting to work with someone; I would only hope that I could live long enough to see what his career, whatever it’s going to be, is going to be going forward. So every once in awhile, one of these things happens.
I also work a lot with people who are trying to get into very esoteric medical school programs, internships, residencies – you better believe they interview these people up one side and down the other because they want to be sure they can talk, they can articulate who they are and what they’re all about and that they’re not just brilliant, but they have many sides to their personality. So this business of a style… if I can work with someone on an interviewing style for one specific thing, I guarantee they’ll have these interview skills for the rest of their life.
Part of it is just – it’s so simple but so complicated – in talking to someone about it who’s objective. Because again, let’s go back to what an emotionally charged issue this is. You could be sitting in a room with someone and your whole life (or you think at the moment) – your whole life depends on what you do and don’t say.
Peter: That’s really interesting that you’re working at that level. Recently in the Wall Street Journal there was an article that Stanford has now joined Yale, Harvard, and a few other of the top tier schools in offering free education to students whose parents earn less than $100,000 a year, or $80,000 a year, what that is doing is just making it all the more competitive with these colleges that so many young people are trying to get into. So you are absolutely right, I mean, any one of these, no matter how brilliant they are, no matter what their GPA is, they’re going to have to sit down and interview someone.
Beth: They will interview not with just one person, not with just one someone, but many someones, and all of these people have different backgrounds, different experiences, different agendas.
I work with clients a lot… you know, some of us just take the business of evaluating people, we read people well. Someone like myself who has been in search for so many years, gosh, I’ve just interviewed and interviewed people and so I know how to do this. Not everyone does and not everyone who is going to be interviewing you is going to be a super interviewer themselves. And some people you’re going to like and some people you will not like and you have to really make this distinction and know how you work with someone that you suddenly know oh we’re so different, but the sameness that you want to convey is that sameness that’s going to make you a fit in the organization and a fit for the specific position.
Peter: Beth, do you work with your clients from a strategic standpoint of say, alright, here are three companies I would really like to work with, or work for; let’s figure out an plan to get me into these three target organizations that I have identified and done a lot of research with and know that I would be a good fit from a cultural standpoint, from an educational standpoint, from a personality standpoint – I’d really like to get into these organizations because I see them growing. How can you help me crack that and get in the door?
Beth: I wish I had someone intelligent enough to appear in my {laughing} sphere of influences that say this. No, but I say that… I turn around and I say this to them. Look, there are four ways that you get jobs.
You get jobs through ads, you get jobs through recruiters, you get jobs through networking, and you get jobs through direct contact. Now most of the senior level people I’m talking to are not going to be getting through ads – and not just generic recruiters, perhaps executive search, but that’s a whole other thing. Networking – maybe yes, maybe no; we’ve got the social networking and all that stuff going now. But know it’s part of my protocol and my way of working with executive, I have them target 3 to 10 companies they want to work for. They’ll say “but I can’t get in there, I don’t know anybody, I don’t have any names…” – yes, you can.
I show them how to get in front of a decision maker not to ask for a job (never ever, ever, ever) – to ask for advice, especially at the senior level. It’s so hard to say the words ‘I need your help.’ ‘Where do you think I might fit in to this industry?’ And if they say oh my god, you never would, then say ‘where do you think I would fit - period.’
There is a whole strategy that I won’t go into now, but that I really work with people on to get in front of decision makers. Because you’re going to come out of that meeting – and yes, you will get that meeting. I can show you and tell you how. It is hard work, there is no free lunch, you’ve got to work at it and you’ve got to keep meticulous records and so on. But when you leave that meeting, you have a new networking contact. Hey, this is what we’re doing now – networking! That’s how we get all our information, all the sites you might be a part of and so forth. But we’re talking now about a specific job search. You’re talking about someone working with a career coach, like myself.
Now the first obvious advantage of that is that two brains are better than one. The second very obvious advantage is that one of the people, the coach, hopefully is totally objective about this thing and can really create focus and keep the whole process on track.
But yeah, this business of identifying exactly where you want to go, it is possible. I can document this. People can get a job at the company that they want to work for at whatever level because we are, alas, in a downsizing economy but there are still wonderful positions out there.
Peter: For the talented people that actually go after them.
Beth: Yep – that go after them and that can assume the attitude of a consultant.
One of the worst things people do in interviews, it’s all about me, me, me, me, me. No! It needs to be about the company. Find out what their problems are, figure out a whole strategy in your mind of how can help solve these problems and positively impact their bottom line. It’s all about money.
Peter: Beth, I want to return to something we talked about earlier and that is the gatekeeper. So many of the initial interviews today are phone screens that you have to somehow get through, and a lot of those phone screens are even conducted by third party organizations that are doing this on behalf of the company and they’re not even part of the organization, or they may be just a junior level HR person within the company who has a script in front of them and is checking things off as you’re talking.
What are some of the keys people need to think about if they have to go through a telephone screen to get to what’s really their first interview in the organization?
###
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